If Community
is simply getting together just for the sake of unifying than we have created a misnomer of the term. We tend to fall in love with the thought of community and unification between people, but never fully understanding what we solicit when it comes down to it. To better understand community you have to look at it in degrees.
First you have your international Community, this one does not explaining. It is was it is. Any one who lives on this planet is automatic in their role of community.
Secondly you have your community, this is where we live. This is our cities, towns, and our villages. This setting provides you with a multi faceted group of people’s of different faiths, philosophies, goals and dreams. This list goes on. Simply put all the people living in a particular area or place.
Thirdly you have your Suburban communities. This includes districts, regions, zones, and areas. Within this you find your immigrant community, this can be best described as your groups, bodies, circle, clique, or faction.
Fourth, you have a very fine microscopic community. This one is called your monastic community. A monastic can be best described as a brotherhood, fraternity or sorority. Also a congregation, abbey, or convent can fall into this model.
Trying to fabricate unity and community is to create a false pretense. Community will happen despite our truest most honest efforts. God will knit together the proper DNA that he wishes to see. We cannot allow ourselves to latch onto the idea of community and sanction ourselves to be swayed by words and passions of man. The caveat is not found without warrant. Do not fall in love with the mere idea of community. It will destroy the very thing you work for. Dietrich Bonhoeffer said it best.
“The person who loves their dream of community will destroy community – even if their intentions are ever so earnest – but the person who loves those around them will create community.”
-Bonhoeffer
We don’t have to go out and try to create unity and community, It’s already there we just have to open up and love. If Community is something you have to create than it is merely a false community reaching to achieve only the temporal. So next time you complain about there not being community look to your left and than to your right, if you don’t find it there than perhaps the lack of community is what is reflecting back at you.
You are an ignoramus. You might want to finish your high school education before you start talking like a Dr. of theology.
Wow, harsh words. I don’t agree with Marc, by the way. I thought it was very good.
Maybe if Marc has such a harsh word to say to you, perhaps he could leave his email address so we could be conversant with him.
I think Nate can defend himself just fine Mr. Young. And he has my email address, as well as my phone number… he knows where I live and I know where he lives.
Serving a community and inspiring and uniting the body of Christ is exactly what the world needs. Not people who use their own blogs to talk trash on someone acting to unify God’s people because they are to afraid to speak up in person.
Undereducated, delusional, self-taught and self-proclaimed theologians are what you call, leaders of cults… Just ask the Mormons, or Jehovah Witnesses.
I’m tired of this blasphemy.
Unity doesn’t happen on its own, it takes PEOPLE coming TOGETHER to unify… People must ACT in order to unite.
1 a: to PUT TOGETHER to form a single unit b: to cause to adhere c: to link by a legal or moral bond
2: to possess (as qualities) in combination
1 a: to become one or as if one b: to BECOME combined by or as if by adhesion or mixture2: to ACT in concert
I actually don’t know who mark is. nor do I have you number. I could be mistaken though. good day.
Yes you do.
Marc long time buddy I didn’t know your last name was Boulder. Any ways I would Like to more about your version of community. The reason I created this blog was to let people freely discuss these certain issues. A point I would like to make is that this post was a free write that derived from the quote that I embodied within. What is your take on the Quote? Secondly no one is trashing anyone here Marc. I am addressing the misnomer that has been created out of the term Community.
Thanks for your concerns and thoughts God bless you brother.
My last name isn’t boulder, and I’m not your buddy. You know exactly what you meant in this blog, and so do I. It is blasphemy. I think most of the solid Christian families I know from the mountain area, and the “community” would agree with me. What’s my take on the quote? I think its taken out of context. What’s your take on the Rhodes, the Fenton’s, the MacLaggan’s, the Mahaffey’s, and Rob and Christa all leaving? Did they just have to go? Did they not get it? Were they the problem?
Thank you for your answer in advance, God bless you as well.
I believe the only one doing any trashing is you, Marc. Calling someone an ignoramus in their own blog is rude. As that being your first statement, you pretty much shut the door on any conversation that could take place.
Well Church planting is not easy, it’s a messy dirty Job. All of those families you mentioned are great people and we love them deeply. Thank you for your thoughts and comments they are taken to heart, I promise. As I welcome your thoughts I would ask that this dosn’t become a breeding ground for bitterness. Remember we are all brothers, I know Mat would agree with me there. So brother, I look forward to your thoughts on the subject.
Regarding the quote, do you have any particular points that I took it out of context? I will humbly fix my mistake if thats the case but do remember it was a free write.
God Bless
What does Mat have anything to do with this? This is a conversation between you and I. I never said anything about Mat. Why bring him into this?
Well Mat is trying so incredibly hard to create legit community within this community and I pray blessing over that. Mat and I both know that despite our differences we are still brothers in Christ, and because we are brother’s in Christ those differences are completely superficial. So my questions in response 9 still stand.
I must admit it does say a lot of what I have been thinking… and feeling lately about the idea of “community”. Especially about the importance of it within the body of Christ.
Very good. Im impressed.
Thanks Richard,
I have been thinking a lot about the idea of unifying and community this past 3 years. and what I have come to the conclusion of is that its not the fix all, in fact it can be far from it. Think about the tower of babel That was a community of people unified in a belief to reach God and so they built a tower extended to the heavens. The rest of the story is history. What do you think?
I personally feel that to have true community it takes people wiling to really listen to God, get out of their comfort zone and put forth an effort, otherwise it is merely talk.
How would you foresee yourself being a catalyst for this. What would you do to get involved in community and what would that community look like?
Honestly, I do not know. You have really got me thinking now.
Well Think away my friend. When I see you next you better have a good answer though J/k LOL. Love ya bro. but I got to hit the hay. I sleepy now.
“We don’t have to go out and try to create unity and community, It’s already there we just have to open up and love. If Community is something you have to create than it is merely a false community reaching to achieve only the temporal.”
“Well Mat is trying so incredibly hard to create legit community within this community and I pray blessing over that.”
You contradict yourself… I thought you cannot create community, yet you approve of someone creating community and pray blessing over it?
nate
i am really liking reading your blog and i love how you make me think… most days. Although, i think i disagree today. I think you have to try incredibly hard to form community. Yes, God created everyone and as you put it, “God will knit together the proper DNA that he wishes to see.” So a sex offender just moved next door, does that mean he is part of my community and i should let me daughters play around him because he is part of the DNA community God planned?
“Unity doesn’t happen on its own, it takes PEOPLE coming TOGETHER to unify… People must ACT in order to unite.”
i have to agree with marc here! Yes it takes God in order for a good community to happen but it takes people and people are people. We can say that God put the perfect people together but we have free will and can choose to do what we want.
after reading all the comments, the only one i agree with is richard. i think that is the best said thing in this conversation!
“I personally feel that to have true community it takes people wiling to really listen to God, get out of their comfort zone and put forth an effort, otherwise it is merely talk.”
Comment by Richard | May 10, 2008
So I’ve been thinking about this concept for a little while. I think there are plenty of examples in favor of and against it throughout history and the Bible. Babel, Noah, Moses & the Israelites, Jesus & the disciples, the disciples & the churches, the Catholic church, Hitler, The Village (the movie), America & its founding fathers, and on and on. There is a common thread in the midst of all of these and sometimes they fail and sometimes they succeed. But there are also differences.
I think I agree with the statement that “creating community simply for the sake of community will fail”, but I think that that’s impossible. There must be other motives. If the motive is to love on people, or maybe if the motive fits in with God’s bigger picture (which is easy to forget about), then it will succeed (but I feel that there are times when it may not).
Bosco and Peanut!!!! I miss you guys, when you coming up to visit? Any ways thanks for your feed back. Brandon I like what you said,
“There is a common thread in the midst of all of these and sometimes they fail and sometimes they succeed.”
Christ needs to be the median in this. without Him being point that we look to it’s all doomed. So if Christ is the center of your community than Your community should be one that reflects christ. Not just reflect him in some facets but strive to reflect him in all. Thanks guys, great words.
So you write a blog stating that:
“We don’t have to go out and try to create unity and community, It’s already there we just have to open up and love. If Community is something you have to create than it is merely a false community reaching to achieve only the temporal.”
“If community is simply getting together just for the sake of unifying than we have created a misnomer of the term.”
You say that creating unity and community is false and you cannot do it. Then you bring up Mat out of no where and say he is trying to create community and unity, which you say is wrong.
The Zion project exists to do exactly what you and this blog oppose and say is wrong, create unity and community.
Its pretty obvious that you wrote this blog against the Zion project and Mat, seeing as it completely opposes it. The nail in the coffin is how you so quickly brought Mat into this discussion. I see your true form Nate.
I’m your huckleberry.
I could be wrong, but in the little I’ve read of Bonhoeffer I believe we may be missing his intention here. I distinctly remember Bonhoeffer saying something to the extent of “focusing on how to create better community will only cause us to miss out on the community that is already there” (again, this is my own paraphrase from memory).
And if that’s the case, I couldn’t agree more: if we continually focus on the faults of our already existing community, dreaming of that perfect community that it could be, then we miss out on what God is already doing in the community.
In light of that, then, I think Nathan’s blog and Bonhoeffer’s quote makes sense.
Thank you for reading my post all the way through. Perhaps I should articulate a bit more, and avoid posting a free write. Haha.
Can’t we all just get along?
When it comes to community or anything else in life and people’s opinions get in the way of God’s opinion, then you might as well pack up the bags and go home.
Since we are on the topic of community, even gangs have communities, so I would hope what we are really talking about the body of Christ. When we are doing what we are supposed to be, being obedient to His will, seeking His heart and making it all about Jesus, that’s when God is glorified and the body is working the way God planned it and lives are truly changed.
If community isn’t all about Jesus, then it’s stupid and pointless…
If it leaves Christ out…its crap!
Right on Paul. Good word. Thanks for adding to the Convo. PS I like your blog. Way to rock it.
“and because we are brother’s in Christ those differences are completely superficial”
Right on, Nate. That’s a great quote. The Body of Christ has a lot of different parts. Just because a hand isn’t a foot, it doesn’t mean it’s not of the body. The important thing is that the two are connected by something much stronger than themselves. Every single person has a completely unique relationship with Christ. We must remember that all our differences are a moot point where our collective relationship with Christ is concerned.
Thanks Dave. Hey do you have a blog? I would love to read it.
Yeah. Well, I’ve got the one on Myspace. Click on my name and check it out.
I back Nate. “We don’t have to go out and try to create unity and community, It’s already there we just have to open up and love.”
“If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,but have not love, I gain nothing.” 1 Corinthians 13
I believe this applies to the discussion of community. With out love, without the focus and source of Christ first and foremost, it is nothing, and means nothing. So my prayer for this continual conversation; whatever agendas, intentions or controversies that lie deeper than what is being portrayed, drop it and fix your eyes on God, and not on these deceptive conversations. And I believe then we will begin to understand and WALK in community living.
I do believe it starts with a choice, its starts with a relationship, it continues with commitment, and through that process of commitment comes dying to the self, letting go of the uncomfortable and being led by the Holy Spirit to discern how we are to truly love people (outside of our own knowledge and understanding)
I believe those who choose to be argumentative and defensive, only reflect a true revelation of where we stand in our own maturity and how can we begin to talk, if we have no place? So before anymore attacking comments, I ask as your sister that we check our hearts and ask God to not get too focused on a heavy topic, but be more focused on how to speak/share/express in love. For this is what Christ Himself said were the most important things.
Thanks for your thoughts Dee Dee. I like the verse that you referenced. When I read that it forces me to look into my own soul and ask, “Am I Loving?” Take care sister.
What would happen if we based theology and our opinions and ideas off of the Bible, instead of quoting other sources? What does the Bible say about community? About unity? About those who try and unify the Body? Should we base our theology on Bible? If what we say and do cannot be supported by the Word then we speak and do nothing worth saying or doing?
Forget defining what unity is in the dictionary(Marc). How about the Bible? Forget Bonhoeffer… he’s ad DEAD theologian(Nate). It’s all about the LIVING Word. Nevermind what a “man” says about theology… Back to what the Lord says!!!
Thats funny, You have the same IP as Marc does. Hum.
I’m going to have to agree with Nate on that one. Seriously its about love. Community=Love/fraternities
Amen DeeDee!
I can not help but think of a couple of verses, in addition to what DeeDee pointed of 1 Corinthians 13, while reading this…
(Mark 12:29-31)”The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
(1 Corinthians 12:12-17)The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?
This- along with Jesus, I personally feel, is what would truely be the building blocks and make up the idea, and then the fact of “Community”.
I agree totally with Bonhoeffer this was a guy that stood up against Hitlers anti-semitic views and risked it all to the point of being thrown into a concentration camp and eventually hung. He did this all to grow authentic Christian community when all around him opposed it. He saw fabricated community created by Hitler and the Nazi party. Even though many Germans were steadfast in the values of the Nazi party and had earnest belief in their “community” history paints quite a different picture of their values. This is why Bonhoeffer emphasizes the concept of creating community through love.
Unity and Community do not need to be created it is clearly established through the Trinity and our connection as the body of Christ. All we do is show up and let the Spirit of God do the work.
John 17
21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
This is the Biblical precedent that The Zion Project is trying to exhibit in the “monastic” community of Mountain Area believers and the growing community of those that are disconnected from God. Like Richard articulated so well through Marc 12; Love God and Love people. For more info on what The Zion Project is about check us out at http://unifyandinspire.blogspot.com
I disagree with what the “Zion Project” said. If unity does not need to be created amongst God’s people, the why would the Church universal be it the dismembered state that it is in? Why even have a tagline for the “Zion Project” stating: to UNIFY and an inspire…? Unifying is defined as uniting… which is creating unity. If the unity of our souls by the Holy Spirit was enough, then we wouldn’t need Zion Projects, and the Church wouldn’t be in the state its in, nor would people abandon a Church out of hurt or anger. Obviously its not enough to have the unification of our souls through the Holy Spirit, just showing up is not enough. We need conscience unity of our minds and our actions as well. We must CREATE unity in our minds, and with our hands.
Marc, The reason why the world lacks unity, and lies broken and destroyed is, because man is disunited with himself.
I wholeheartedly agree with you Nate. With man being their broken and sinful state, there is not way that we can have complete unity unless it is lead by the Holy Spirit.
I think you misunderstood my point. After re-reading my post I realize that I should have used the word fabricate. So to clarify we do not need to fabricate unity and community but we do have to come together through our relationship in Christ to do the work it takes to be a community. We do not have to make something new because God has already established this relationship. We do have to be willing to step up and make the investment into unity as you would in any relationship. From there the Spirit of God does the work…